This time my presentation will be about Polish "football fans".
Probably everyone of you heard about what happened during the Polish
Football Cup in Bydgoszcz. In this game players from Legia Warszawa and Lech
Poznań played against each other. Match ended in a penalty shoot and than
everything began.
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* - Summary
Representatives of UEFA and PZPN who wanted to see our preparations for
the European Championship were observing the game from the stands - and
they saw it;). The security and police response was very fast, but they were
unable to protect the entrance to the grass. The stadium in Bydgoszcz was
demolished and its losses are valued at about 100 000 PLN and police guard
cost about 1 million PLN.
One of the interesting facts of this game is that the police were opposed
to organising the Polish football finals on this stadium. Another, is that
there were "fans" with stadium bans. After the match the media immediately wrote about this fact. They also informed the public about the recommendation
letter which was written by the police officer for "football fans" with stadium bans.
To defend themselves the Police said that it was better to let them ("football fans") get into the stadium than if they would have demolished the
surrounding area. But contrary to the police's predictions, the "fans" came out into the city.
On the Internet and newspapers we can read what happened on Bydgoszcz's streets when hooligans were going to the match:
"They threw stones into my window" - recalls old woman from Bydgoszcz
"They were cursing and demolishing streets"
"The police had to use water cannons, but it didn't help for a long time" -
said Mr. Zygmunt
More about the situations on Bydgoszcz's streets you can read
After this championship the police and Polish government again declared the war against pseudo-fans.
It took 7 days to arrest 21 of the most aggressive hooligans who thought that covering their faces would make impossible to stop them.
If you want to see or read more information about this action go to this web
In the next part of my presentations I will present you the effects of
these events. How the government, the police and the football fans have
reacted and will react soon. The third part will be about stadium situations
in other countries.
Question:
1.What do you thing about this whole situation?
2.Do you think the situations on Polish stadiums make true football fans be afraid to go to the match?
3.How do you think we can improve the situation in our stadiums?
The real topic on time :-)
ReplyDeleteI think it's nothing new. We used to have hools and problems with them. The only thing that makes this situation a bit different is Euro 1912. Inefficiency of our police service doesn't surprise anyone I'm afraid. Everybody got used to it ;-)
Anyway, current government couldn't dream about anything better to happen. It's another typical substitutional subject after designer drugs.
I don't go to the matches so I don't know if it really scares true fans of football, but I suppose so. I believe that what we need improve is control of banned hooligans to not let them in. I don't believe in our legacy system, any statue won't help. Perhaps we should check some solutions in other countries who solved the problem already?
I think that this situation is ridiculous - people calling themselves 'football fans' spread aggression and vandalism instead of being true fans who are able to respect the fact that there is a second team and that it may win and have its own fans. I am sure that some of the people truly loving football may avoid going to matches due to being afraid of becoming a part of such disgusting actions. In my opinion, there is an easy way to improve the situation and the behavior of those pseudo-fans. This solution has already been implemented by the Polish administration authorities - no one can attend football matches. Of course, fans and football clubs protest against this decision and hire lawyers to make the authorities change it. However, in my opinion, this was a good move. After the ban ends, football fans may come back and behave in a much better way while attending a match. They will have a simple choice - either behaving in a proper way or not coming to matches at all. I am sure that this decision will eventually contribute to a change in this horrible situation. I am not in favor of paying taxes for acts of vandalism and demolition (the renovation of stadiums is sponsored by the city government).
ReplyDeleteThe first thing is to obey the law, the second thing is to put huuuge financial penalties on those "fans" and then execute them - so that next time such idiot will think if it is worth to demolish something or kick someones ass and than pay 40k zl or even more + bonus life ban for such events. But in Poland nothing works. Police writes letters to let people to the stadium that have bans, penalties are not executed despite the fact that there are videos from tv, monitoring etc. on which faces can be seen - and nothing is done.
ReplyDeleteFor sure true fans are afraid to go and watch a match live from the stadium. Almost on each game something is going on. We should follow England - they managed the same problem. You are warned there just for covering your face as far as I know. But the law is executed there strictly so that everyone knows what is waiting for him when he does something stupid.
In our country everyone tried to pretend that there is no problem with that until the last accident. Maybe this will be the factor to change something..
Kamyk is right. I completely agree that there should to be a huge financial penalties, hooligans should be forbidden to enter the next football games for at least one year or even more.
ReplyDeleteIf I wear a football fun (but I am not;), I would be obviously afraid that similar situation that you described in the post above would happen.
I do not really understand the subculture of hools. I thing football is only a cover for agression and idiocy. They thing that ther fight for true matters. To protect clubs colors, herbs. But the worst is, that they think ther all do the righ thing, that they are the "true" fans and this is a right way to act. If you do not sing and scream on the stadium then you can "f**k off". This is mostly common reaction for people who go only to watch a match.
ReplyDeleteBut what is true is because of this acts clubs pay huge penalties, and what happened now, they even can not collect money from tickets, Lechs and Legias stadiums are closed.
I thing that huge financial penalties would do nothing, because 80% of people there are without money to pay for it. And probably it wont help at all.
What will be the next step in this "fight" goverment vs hools? We will see :)
I think that this situation is ridiculous - people calling themselves 'football fans' spread aggression and vandalism instead of being true fans who are able to respect the fact that there is a second team and that it may win and have its own fans. I am sure that some of the people truly loving football may avoid going to matches due to being afraid of becoming a part of such disgusting actions. In my opinion, there is an easy way to improve the situation and the behaviour of those pseudo-fans. This solution has already been implemented by the Polish administration authorities - no one can attend football matches. Of course, fans and football clubs protest against this decision and hire lawyers to make the authorities change it. However, in my opinion, this was a good move. After the ban ends, football fans may come back and behave in a much better way while attending a match. They will have a simple choice - either behaving in a proper way or not coming to matches at all. I am sure that this decision will eventually contribute to a change in this horrible situation. I am not in favour of paying taxes for acts of vandalism and demolition (the renovation of stadiums is sponsored by the city government).
ReplyDelete1.What do you thing about this whole situation?
ReplyDeleteSome bandits have damaged stadium but government exaggerated the problem and found another way to distract people from collapsing budget.
2.Do you think the situations on Polish stadiums make true football fans be afraid to go to the match?
I don't know how the situation really looks like since I'm not interested in football. If it looks exacly as it is shown in TV then yes.
3.How do you think we can improve the situation in our stadiums?
People who are really responsible should be punished very harshly, including prison sentences.
To me this whole situation is some kind of taunting a law and such situations shouldn't take place on stadiums. But I don't think that "normal" fans would stop coming to the games. I, myself, go to Legia and I haven't seen anything wrong happening yet. It's worth noticing, that there's even family sector, where are small children with their parents (about 1500 children children for game).
ReplyDeleteImproving safety on stadiums isn't a simple thing to do. If it was, it would have been done long time ago. We should follow the West- high financial penalties and stadium bans or prison. If it worked there , why wouldn't it work here? Closing stadiums isn't really beneficial for those normal fans, but it's necessary for sure. At least our goverment shows that it's not afraid of hooligans.
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ReplyDelete1) To tell the truth at all I do not care about this situation. I did not think about it, I'm waiting how government will respond.
ReplyDelete2) Yes, I wanted to go more than once to a match but I don't go, I retreat becouse of the hooligans. After a single match in my town when I went there with my father a couple years ago. What happened there has left me not interesting picture of matches which are played in Poland. I think that we are still the wild east...
3) We need to change the whole our nation, we need to educate thoughtful and cultured people.
1) It's obviously bad organization of the event. Probably there was too little security personnel. In addition, there should be absolutely no possibility of bringing dangerous objects to the stadiums (at the airports it works somehow), and above all, a person under the influence of alcohol should be not allowed to enter this type of events.
ReplyDelete2) Probably yes. Personally, I'm not a football fan, and frankly I'd rather watch football on TV where the camera really give us the best view of the game, but if anyone would like to feel the atmosphere of being at the stadium, he or she probably wouldn't feel so good among the hooligans.
3) First of all increase the control of persons admitted to the stadium - both in terms of any bans, as well as in terms of alcohol influence or dangerous items. In addition a correct ratio of security staff to the fans should be retained. Better too much than too little.
That's a terrible shame and scandalized situation. Why we aren't able to go see a football match with whole family? Why do we always feel fear and insecurity? I cannot understand that phenomenon. My opinion is that financial penalties wouldn't be enough for them. I would rather choose, as a punishment, hard physical work if not...prison. There is no excuse for that. But always fault has a two faces. I can also blame Polish law and whole PZPN for that crappy situation. As I heard today: CEO of PZPN earns 30 000 PLN monthly. For what? For doing nothing. Yes, indeed.
ReplyDeleteHow we can increase stadium security? I think the idea with electronic ID cards wouldn't be so stupid. I mean, if I want to buy a ticket firstly I would have to get ID card as a football fan. Then everything will be registered. Who, what, where. There would be many complains for that system, for sure. But, if we couldn't improve situation in other way we should you radical methods.
1) As mentioned in the article the police was opposed to organising the event in Bydgoszcz. Unfortunately the decission has been made and its cost is very high. What is frustrating is that stadium bans don't really work as expected. Famous leader of Legia's hooligan group known as Staruch has been on that match even though he had a 2 year ban. Lot's of work to be done before the Euro 2012 starts.
ReplyDelete2) Frankly speaking I'm not a football fan. I've been to a few matches in Poland as well as abroad. It's a whole different class of event! People are ruled by the same emotions but somehow they are able to control them. I know I would never take my son to Lech - Legia match.
3) I've listened to a radio audition on different ways of improving stadium security some time ago. All speakers agreed that something has to be done, they were all eager to fight hooligans, but until now I haven't heard about any of those ideas being implemented in the real life. The situation in Bydgoszcz only proves that there is a lot of work to be done.
Why does the stadium in Bydgoszcz had to be demolished to begin talk about it? I wonder what would be on Euro 2012 if it did not happen because in a few months we host the biggest football event in Europe but I think we aren't ready for it. Even the new stadiums are under constructions errors. This is sick.
ReplyDeletePolish Ekstraklasa presents a very weak football in Europe (comparing to England, Spain, Italy), we have no football team schools, our government (Polski Zwiazek Pilki Noznej), players and arbiters are or were corrupted and we do nothing to change this. Football in Poland it's business. Even some players talking about football as way for make money - not passion. Now Mr Tusk with his people said "stop, we are hosting of EURO2012, we have to do this same as with dopalacze in Poland". About state of polish football we told a long time ago, but our government want change this just now. Why? Not for true fans and families with kids but for the image. In this way they are protecting yourself.
I know English system is expensive and it's not possible to implement in Poland in 100%, but this is only the excuse. The truth is that until now we did nothing in this case.
When I watch Spanish or English league matches, I see the whole families and really old people who arriving to cheer on their teams and they feel safely.
I hope the changes in Poland will be soon. I would as a fan.
Personally I wouldn't mind opening fire to those thugs. What loss would it make to the society? Getting rid of all this scum is just pure profit. If they want violence, let them have it. May the more numerous and better armed win.
ReplyDeleteOf course someone who loves football is afraid to go to a match with all that things happening.
The solution could be - as mentioned above - opening fire to anyone actively agressive. Given that so many of those thugs are true gangsters - you just do good to the entire society.
Hooligans on Polish stadiums is nothing new. It is a huge problem that seems to be unable to be resolved. We have been dealing with stadium hooligans for ages and we still cannot fight the problem. I think that the police should undertake strong means to get rid of the hooligans on the stadiums.
ReplyDeletePeople are scared to go to a football match because they think that they might be beaten up. That is true. You never know what might happen especially after the game in Bydgoszcz. It seems like hooligans have taken over the stadiums and they go to football games to fight against themselves. I suppose they have nothing better to do. True football fans are simply afraid that the opposing team fans will hurt them either on the stadium or on their way to the stadium. However, real football fans go to football matches regardless to the consequences and nothing can stop them from attending football games. It is like Sunday mass for them.
I do not think that we can solve the problem of stadium hooligans on our own. It has been too long since the authorities have been trying to solve this issue. I think that we should take from the experience of other countries and follow what they did to prevent stadium hooligans from entering football games. The best example for us should be England. It had even greater problem than we do now and yet they managed to solve it. Even though English football teams were banned from European championships for couple of years because of stadium hooligans they did not suffer too much from this loss. And English football now has one of the strongest football leagues in the world. Even though England has taken drastic measures to prevent fights on the stadiums it paid off. Maybe we should follow their path?
1. For me hooligans in Poland are total disgrace. There are no such problems in civilist countries. They should be closed in jails and banned from stadions.
ReplyDelete2. Personally I am not a big fan of football, however I believe that people can be afraid of beeing hurt.
3. In my opinion hooligans should be registered and banned from entering stadions. There also should be special security force and gates to segregate people.